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Thank you so much for watching! I did use TLJ's throne room fight as a visual queue a few times for an example of exceptions to the Disney lightsaber mythologising, and I've shared my thoughts on it in other comments but basically it straddles the fence as far as the essay subject is concerned: It DOESN'T mythologise the lightsaber (yay), but it DOES defeat every enemy with one single hit (boo). Obviously by design this fight is two people we know vs faceless goons, but there are countless examples of faceless goons given personality through choreography and I would have loved to have seen that in TLJ's throne room scene. Regarding the death star fight, it similarly is sculpted around the lightsaber -- showing the force bending the beam, hissing and spitting as they clash into the ground for a close up shot -- Kylo letting Rey VERY slowly turn her hilt around to try a back grip. I didn't feel personally that stamina was the deciding factor because Kylo only loses when he gets distracted by Leia. They clash and clash and clash and then he takes his eye off the ball and gets hit once -- a one hit instant win. But of course NONE of this is about whether or not you as a viewer are allowed to or "should" like a thing. These scenes can impact us and be special to us for an infinite number of reasons, and so there is no objective right/wrong way to have enjoyed a duel. I'm only saying this as it relates to the thesis of the essay -- the major difference between Lucasfilm and Disney // Damage Communication and Lightsaber Nostalgia. As they relate to that, I feel TLJ throne room is the best the Sequels have but falls a little bit short, and TROS death star duel is exactly what is described in the thesis. But maybe we missed something and if we did, or even if there was something special about these scenes that you'd like to share, we'd LOVE to hear about it! Thank you for sharing and participating in the conversation :D -The Bird

@ Maybe they do focus more on the sabers but that comes across to me as more of an aesthetic thing. I think the focus is very much on the characters themselves. When I said stamina in TROS it’s because it believe the fight ends as soon as Rey is disarmed and on the ground. We do see, through Rey’s expressions and the way she’s fighting that she is getting tired and losing stamina. Idk I do get what you’re saying I just think it’s more about the characters in the fights which is the focus, not specifically the sabers, only really when the saber relevant to the characters. Thanks for the response!

I largely agree, but also I think power scaling created this problem with the force more than anything. In Empire it is a huge effort for Yoda to move the X Wing and in Attack of the Clones he is barely able to keep a pylon from crushing Ani/Obi. In Revenge of the Sith the way they demonstrate Palpatine's power is having him simultaneously lifting and throwing entire senate seats like it's nothing -- THAT was the height of force power and Yoda could barely stop one and throw it back. The force was never *that* easy or that strong in the films, but extended media (games/books) often ran a bit more wild and we entered a state of constant force escalation. Yoda told Luke to beware the Emperor's power because he saw the Emperor throw senate seats and shoot lightning, but in Kenobi we see Vader stop a full sized ship with his mind and tear it apart. Even Ahsoka in clone wars almost stops a small ship from blasting off using the force. So yeah to me it feels like we only need to ask these "why don't they just-" questions because of the wild force power scaling over the years :P But I would like to see lower-level force usage in combat more. The Acolyte did some, some of the Old Republic animated duels do some as well. Really effective when done right :D -The Bird

Thank you so much for the kind words, there's a lot I can say about the sort of creators you're referring to but I'll refrain and just emphasize that we will never sell out to a narrative or stoop to thoughtless parroting! A hand shake is much appreciated, and if you'd like to we'd love you to check out our new Idle Scree stickers -- purchasing just one of the cheapest stickers would double the profit that this video made and help make up for the view/engagement deficit that our style of honest media engagement gives us ~ www.idlescree.com/store Thank you again for watching and for commenting, it's what keeps us going :) -The Bird

Thank you so much! We have a lot to say about Doctor Who, we just have to balance it against the more popular channel topics. If you'd like to see more Doctor Who more often then please do share these videos around to people and spaces which you think would like to hear what we have to say :) You could also check out our new official stickers -- buying just 3x Holo stickers would literally *double* the amount of money this video made, and give us the breathing room to make more without fretting about the view counter :D www.idlescree.com/store Thank you so much for this comment, it's exactly this kind of support which encourages us to keep going! -The Bird

@@idlescree And I very much understand that. I genuinely wish I was the type of person to put long TV video essays on in the background so I could play it on loop to support yall. Glad your channel is doing better with other videos as well! I share your channel with my friends who like doctor who at the very least!! And I will take a look at those stickers, thank you for letting me know :)

Thank you so much, word of mouth really is the driving force behind this entire platform <3 Are there any Doctor Who topics you'd like to see us explore? If it exists, the chances are high that I have something to say about it 🤣 -The Bird

The death star throne room fight with evil Rey/the start of the fight with Kylo? It abided by the rules and format set out by the Force Awakens fights which we used to demonstrate the template, and we didn't want to make the video any longer than it had to be by padding it with every single fight scene broken down. That being said, maybe there's something special/unique about the duel that we missed that you saw? We'd love to hear it if so! This channel is all about promoting discourse and appreciating art, so we're always happy for commenters to join the conversation :D -The Bird

@idlescree i was talking about the pretorian guard battle after snoke death on episode 8

@ ohhhhh duh! For some reason my brain auto corrected The Last Jedi to the Rise of Skywalker. Not sure how since RoS is definitely the goofiest of the 9 Star Wars titles @0@ I think as far as the literal communication of physical damage goes, as well as seeing characters work for the win, it is better than TFA/RoS -- however we don't learn much about the guards through their choreography and they are all knocked out with single-strikes. I think that scene falls into a middle-ground, it isn't lost in the myth and nostalgia of the lightsaber the way that the other sequels and Disney+ shows tended to be, but it's also not doing enough with damage communication to make the result any more interesting than "and then he touched the guy with the saber and won." I did like it at the time though, and I liked the (VERY short lived) promise that we were in for something NEW with the traditional bad teaming up with the traditional good. I think there's some stuff to appreciate about that scene but the damage communication isn't its strongest feature. Maybe a future video will be devoted to what I think the strengths of this scene REALLY was :D The scene appeared visually on screen in this video but it didn't differentiate itself enough (in my opinion) to warrant a specific breakdown -- that is to say, it added nothing to the topic at hand other than another example, and we dont have all day to go through every example :P -The Bird

Rise of Skywalker is not a goofier name than ‘Attack Of The Clone’ or ‘The Phantom Menace’

I don't think they're great names either to be fair, but like, does Skywalker rise? o-O The Clones Attack, there is a Phantom Menace, the Sith get their Revenge, A New Hope is raised, The Empire then Strikes Back, and with his training complete and Vader's turn back to the light we see the Return of the Jedi. The Force Awakens very literally occurs on screen, and The Last Jedi refers to Luke's disposition and his end of film revelation. I understand that Skywalker rising could refer back to Rey Skywalker choosing her destiny and such, but it feels (to me personally) sort of an underrepresented part of the film? And just in particular on an admittedly PURELY aesthetic level, Rise of Skywalker feels too self referential to me and that's what makes it sound like a fanfic title in my opinion. Like if Star Wars III was called "The Dawn of the Death Star" I would be equally off put by the self referential nature and the use of recognisable iconography in the title. That's just my personal gut reaction though :P -The Bird

Thank you so much for the kind words! We will ALWAYS produce thoughtful and thought provoking detailed analysis in protest of clickbait buzzword commentary masquerading as "analysis" or "criticism"! Thank you so much for watching, like we said in the video a lack of buzzword topics and arguments means that we won't see the kind of views that shallow factory-churned content gets -- so every new commenter such as yourself warms our critter hearts! We're very grateful you found us and that you enjoyed the video, and we hope that you'll pass it along to anyone else who you feel might like it too :) -The Bird

Trust me, we're glad you found us too <3 YT doesn't push our videos because we don't fit into a particular niche interest category and so videos like this are almost certainly dead on arrival unless word of mouth spreads it. Every new commenter is another win against that system, and a reassurance that this is all worth it! Thank you so much for watching, hope you enjoyed it :D -The Bird

Thank you so much, that means the world to us! We couldn't be happier to see our analysis informing positive creative decisions!! It's an honour to be considered a reference or resource for future creative endeavours :0 Especially on a video like this which survives by word of mouth only, I'm glad you found your way to it and took from it something important or informative -The Bird

Yeah, it's just as we said: when we remember the duels, when we act out and play our own duels, we specifically think of the saber and its danger and aesthetic, *not* kicking each other in the head. We all go kid mode over lightsabers but you know who didn't? The Lucasfilm team(s) behind the first 6 films. They cooked with different ingredients than what we as fans-first and creatives-second bring to the kitchen. If we want there to be new incredible experiences then we have to use the same (or similar) ingredients that the originals used, not imitations of the things our nostalgia clings to. I'm a bit more worried about Ahsoka season 2. I'm a bit more worried about the industry in general -- which will become its own video -- but basically the streaming era very specifically demands content to fill a library and they want that content to be the safest, most optimised and well tuned content possible to keep platform engagement time up to shore up investors. Despite how unique The Acolyte was, the streaming structure still bent and broke the story around it in very unfortunate ways which made it a harder watch - - and it STILL got axed because it can't do an Avengers crossover the way that Ahsoka and Mando can. All that to say I am always hoping to be surprised, but I am not counting on *any* arm of the franchise to take any risks :\ Thank you so much for watching and for contributing to the conversation, it really means the world to us especially on videos like this which don't get the views of our regular programming <3 -The Bird

Who? :0 This actually wasn't modeled in response to any one person or thing, it's primarily about how mythologising our nostalgia blinds us to the methods used to create the very thing we're nostalgic for. That is, if we can't see through our own love and fandom then we'll never be able to produce anything more than aesthetic imitation. But also, everyone has a Star Wars opinion so I am sure this probably sounds like a pretty direct rebuttal of someone out there :P Who were you thinking of? -The Bird

@@idlescree i think is a response to Full Fat Videos who claimed all the disney+ duels suck because they lack the operatic narrative from the films.

@@motor4X4kombat Oh? No, haven't seen it. I started this script in September, recorded it in October. Our turnaround time -- especially over the holiday period -- is nowhere near that fast :P *[watching now]* OK! So I just watched their video about the worst lightsaber duels. There's nothing inherently bad about the video, it just has no central thesis. It's a vlog, like most YT videos. They discuss some fights, how they feel about them, how they think they could improve/what let them down, and then moves on. At one point importance is placed on "good cinematography, production design, and narrative" but these are not elaborated or substantiated on in any way that could provoke a response so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It's a vlog in which they explain their feelings with film terms, not a specific thesis or breakdown or analysis with any central focus or conclusion to make -- so we couldn't respond even if we tried :') It's apples and oranges~ EDIT: Although I didn't like the way they suggested that Rosario Dawson let down the choreography as/for Ahsoka -- that's the choreographers fault, she's just doing what they tell her to do :P Minor-ist nitpick possible :0 But otherwise yeah, as above ^ :P -The Bird

Of course ~ There's a broad spectrum of duels in the animated series, some of which I like and some I don't as much, but that mostly comes down to the damage communication or lack thereof -- for me at least. They just weren't brought up because they didn't introduce any new point, angle, or evidence to the thesis of this video and we don't have all day to go through every example :') On the topic though, Maul V Ben is unique in its direction because it's specifically not at all about the Saber combat. As we discussed, Disney star wars of that era tended to make the Saber the main character of Saber fights, but Maul V Ben is entirely about those two characters and their history. There's no need to flex the Saber or emphasise how cool or dangerous it is -- it's not about the sabers. So they're allowed to be just ordinary tools to advance a scene (as I feel they should be) and what we're left with is a dialogue heavy three-swing showdown which subverts Disney's worship of the Saber for a deeply emotional character-led story beat. It's not an exception to the rule because of its lack of damage communication (I would argue the damage is mental/emotional and is exposited directly in their dialogue. We learn how low Maul is and how balanced Ben is from that rather than physical hits), it's proving the thesis of Disney's lightsaber fandom by setting it aside to deliver probably the #1 most impactful 'duel' of the era up to that point. It's excellent! :D Thank you so much for watching and commenting, we make these videos to have these conversations! -The Bird

It's a great one for sure! I spoke briefly on it in another comment, but basically it sorta proves the rule discussed in this video. That fight is *not* about the lightsabers, it's about the characters. The lightsabers aren't mythologised or made the main focus, they're just tools to achieve an end in the scene. So instead of focusing on how dangerous the blade is, we get character-led writing. As such, it instantly became one of the most popular saber 'duels' of Disney's era up to that point :D I would even argue that the physical damage is supplemented by clearly defined mental damage. The healthbars aren't established by phyisical hits, they're established in conversation. Ben is balanced, thinking clearly, calm. Maul is loose, falling apart, unhinged, can't contain himself or is anger. In lieu of physical damage to establish the stakes and position of the fighters, we get a pre-fight mental assessment that communicates the same information to us. This allows the fight to take this samurai aesthetic and resolve in only 3 swings without feeling hollow or disappointing. When people say "the battle began before the sabers were drawn", I think this is what they mean -- and it's great ! -The Bird

@@idlescree Yeah, it was pretty neat. I guess if we are talking fights like this one, you might want to check out Squampopulous's video that tries breaking down what you need for a fight to be engaging based on how competent the parties are that come into it. Like you'd expect for there to be a lot of variance in how the lightsaber fights go down, but most of them are so apparently "evenly" matched all the time it's not satisfying to watch...

I think at some point I'll have to make a video about my thesis on The Acolyte. It essentially boils down to: "This would have been a great movie, but streaming service incentives/practices have sabotaged it and subsequently killed it." I think The Acolyte is really quite good if you cut out some of the fat and reorganise the sequence so that there's no streaming-service mystery box with the backstory. Keeping it a secret to bait engagement undermines the twins entirely -- we don't get to understand them until the second last episode ._. When you understand the story as "one twin is a victim and doesn't know it, the other is the hero but has teamed with the traditional villains" it's a really interesting dynamic -- but the streaming format undermined it entirely :\ -The Bird

@@idlescree While I agree with you for the most part, I'd argue that even without the "tv bloat" there are some objectively bad scenes that couldn't be "trimmed down" because they're crucial story beats, they'd have to be rewritten.

@@idlescree I'd also like to add that I really enjoy your videos and the fact that you're willing to actually discuss the topics with your viewers.

Thank you so much for the kind words, we really do all of this as a matter of promoting learning and discourse~ RE: The Acolyte, I know what you're getting at with certain scenes/story beats, I'm sure I will cover it in the eventual video we do but for now what I'll say is: streaming service bloat isn't as obvious or simple as just scenes that go too long or feel like a drag. There are financial and structural incentives which impact the way every minute is planned out. For those scenes which I imagine you refer to, I would still blame the format primarily for the way they turned out -- for reasons we'll get into with that video. The way *everything* is written and produced now is bent and broken around the streaming service format in increasingly upsetting ways, and so when we talk about undoing that it would involve a bit more than just reordering and deleting scenes; it would involve addressing those moments which would have to be rewritten and we'll break down *why* they have to, and *why* they were written like that in the first place~ -The Bird

@@idlescree Oh, that makes a lot of sense actually, I thought you were just referring to dragging out the story, I'm looking forward to the video you mentioned. I'm curious what certain shows like Andor did to avoid this, or was it just less noticeable